Gregg, I have received permission from Cheri, Nicole, Sue and Gregg to share the following posts with others. I think putting it on the WRA website under FAQs is a great idea and will compliment your article wonderfully. -Sue :-) 1. Some box training tips from Cheri Boutelle: Re training, it's simple. If/when he is totally crazed for the lure, we can start box practice. You can actually, i.e., start the first step on your own anytime during the (race) day. First, he needs to get used to the noise the box makes....let him watch the dogs getting loaded and breaking from the box. He will catch on pretty fast. Second step, is to walk him through the box. When he starts running through the box, he's ready for the next step. Third step, chasing the lure through an open box. Forth, close the front door....chase the bunny. Fifth, close both doors. The tricky part is you can rush him through theses steps....it's just to much to learn in one day, plus...you must be very careful not to scare him at any point! When he's still learning the box, you should always start over from the beginning to make sure he remembers what he has learned already. Clue of the day.....how many times did it take for him to understand what the word sit meant?? So don't expect him to learn the box in one day. ____________________ 2. Nicole Fontaine's comments on One Day Box Training: Hi all, I am by no means an expert, but having trained two race Whippets successfully and being witness and assisting with many other pups in training, I must say I am very disturbed by the posts to the list hinting that all it takes is "one day" to racetrain a Whippet. Training a Whippet to accept the box and muzzle and run clean and ENJOY it, should be done in small steps. You don't train a Whippet to a CD in one day and you don't ring train a dog in one day, why push it to race before it is totally ready? I have seen many dogs "pushed" to run through a closed box, muzzled with other dogs in one day and low and behold a "fouler" is created. This is most common is in dogs who have been lure coursed, are very keen on the lure, and not given the proper time to become used to the box. The owner thinks "hey, he knows what to do with a bunny". Sure, they come out, sure they run the lure once they see the other dogs flying down the track. But are they startled out of the wits? You bet! It's a scary place to be - crammed in a little black box with 5 other dogs screaming their heads off. The door is very loud when it flys open. I always take SEVERAL(read 5-6 or more) racemeets to slowly introduce the box. Let your dog go down to the box and watch others being loaded and coming out. Send your dog back and forth through an open (front and back) box with no bunny, just treats. Then send the dog through a totally open box with a bunny. Finally you close the front and eventually the back. Once the dog is coming out of the box with confidence by itself, you introduce one other dog and slowly increase the number of dogs it breaks with. THEN you have a race trained dog. My Whippets go willingly into the box with a pat on the butt, they don't turn in the box and they don't foul, and I owe it to taking the time to make sure they were confident with one step before adding another. We all know that too much at one time will shut a Whippet down quicker than anything. Ok, off my soapbox. Nicole Fontaine 2 racetrained Whippets AND a racing IG. ZodiacK9s@aol.com www.geocities.com/heartland/meadows/8544 ____________________ 3. Sue Oace's comments further about One Day Box Training: RIGHT ON, Nicole!!!! I was biting my tongue, hoping that someone would give this advice. I am sure there are many examples of "one day wonders", but whippets are highly individual and learn and mature at different rates. In Northern California, 5-6 race or practice meets would be a MINIMUM training period. I know plenty of dogs that "start over" several times because of playfulness or shyness. Some do not enter competitive racing until 18 months or more because of their slowness in maturing. I wanted to rush one of my pups into a race, even though her main interest was bouncing and playing with other dogs rather than single-minded attention to the lure. Merril Woolf encouraged me to keep running her alone for a while and wait until she matured a little. It wasn't easy (I tend to be a little impatient), but a few months and several practice runs (hand slip, through open box, through closed box, without then with a muzzle, finally with an old solid unflappable veteran dog, then two vets, then a full practice race - that could have been stopped if trouble occurred), she developed into a clean running eager as hell racing dog. By the way, she is not fast - will always be grade D - but racing attitude is in the head and heart. Fast is wonderful, but without good training, good attitude and desire, even a fast dog will never be a racer. Sue Oace Northern California Whippet Club Berkeley, CA oace@nature.Berkeley.edu ___________________________ 4. Gregg Gammie's tips for training a whippet to run with other whippets Gregg Gammie wrote: > < suggestion. The first couple times she runs with others hand slip her. For some dogs it's quite a surprise to come out of the box and find that there is someone else running with them for the first time. Can lead to playing etc. Better they know the other dog is there at the start I think.>> Sue Wagner replied: > Did as you suggested. > Hand-slipped Mouse and Sadie from in front of box and went about 1/2way down track. > Next time hand-slipped Mouse and Sadie through open box and went about 1/2way. > Next time ran Mouse and Diablo from closed box and went all the way. She seemed to do just fine! If she repeats success this coming Saturday in Hamilton, we'll add more dogs to the equation. > > Feel free to share advice. I appreciate it. > > Thanks! > -Sue :-) Hi Sue, That's Great! I assume you left an empty stall between mouse & the other dog. Do the same when you add a dog on the other side. Then move one dog in so there's no empty between Mouse & it. Then move in the other dog. Then start adding pairs of dogs to the outside. Won't take long & the box will be full. Also, do some hand slips so that you set up what's going to happen. Run her with a slower dog but slip her late so she gets to pass. Slip her early with a faster dog so she gets passed. Both are likely times to be naughty. Do each of these a couple times to be sure. If she'll do this and run with a box full she will be as ready as she'll get w/o actually being in a meet. -- Gregg Gammie ________ This response was not on the list but sent in response to a private query. Greyhounds sound very different when coming up behind a dog than whippets do. If you are going to use a greyhound to get your dog used to being passed I would suggest making a couple short, 50 yd, runs with them breaking even so your dog is used to that powerhouse being next to him first. Then make a run with your dog only having a couple yard head start so the pass takes place quickly & the greyhound isn't up to full power. Then give your dog a better head start so the pass takes place at mid point or later, but before the finish line. You probably have picked up on one of the themes I use in training. No surprises the dog can react negatively to. Now to his sister. Last question first. Will she enjoy the racing and will you enjoy racing her? If she will then it's worth it to train her regardless of her size or speed potential, some small dogs run really fast. Some dogs never get used to the box and it's fight to get them in every time. Those we just put up with, box them & run them. Most want to run anyway and run well even though they fight going in the box. However, if we can make boxing more pleasant then their life, & ours is easier. First work on getting her more keen on the lure. Keen dogs are usually more eager to get in the box, or at least more willing to accept it's necessity in order to be able to race. Try getting something box sized and start making her go through it, like a cardboard box 24 " tall 3- 4 ft long and 10" wide which you place at the back door and she can't go out w/o going through it. If she's food motivated toss a small piece of treat into the box so she goes in to get it. Both of these can get her used to small spaces which may bother her. Also the tunnel at your local agility club may help if you can get her to go through it. Here's what I do when starting a dog on the box, you can adapt to suit your needs. I take the dog up and let them witness several box breaks from the sidelines. This gets them used to the noise of the box, the commotion of the dogs in the box and when they break and it lets the dog witness the lure leaving which they will want to join in the chase. Then I let people know I'm going to be doing some early box work and that I will be using the box for the next 15 -20 minutes, so go take a break. With a couple helpers me & the pup go to the box. 1. We open the front of the box & remove the back door too. I put the lure at the entrance of the box, right where the dog is loaded, with the string going through the box (remember the front door is open already). I hold the pup facing the stall entrance and right at it. Then my helper runs away while holding the string (I do this instead of using the lure machine because the lure doesn't move so fast and the "lure operator' is right there, not at the other end of the track, so we can communicate more easily, even if radios are available). Lure takes off. I release dog as lure moves. Almost always the dog will chase the lure right through the box and catch the lure immediately. You want him to catch it as it's moving if at all possible. Do this 2-4 times. If the dog is not tired move on to the next step. If it is then give it a rest and continue later, that day or another. 2. I move the lure to the exit of the starting box for a time or two and hold the dog in the same place. The dog will chase the lure going through the box like it's not there. someone I know does this variation because she often has to do this stage alone. She puts the dog on a 10-15 ft leash. Then sits on one side of the box and throws treats toys and squawker through the box which the dog chases and grabs. Then she "reels in' the pup on the leash. She can get a powerful amount of this stage of training done alone like this. I've seen her dogs break and they do so well. They also just walk into the box. With a bad back she can't fight a dog into the box. 3. Here's the tricky bit. Transitioning from running through the box to going into it and waiting for the box to open & chase the bunny. What I do is hold the dog at the back of the box with the door shut and the loading door open. Have someone shake the squawker in the door window so the dog can see it then place the lure right in the window, but not so close the opening door will knock it around, so the pup can see it. Then the door opens, the lure moves and I release the dog. Usually takes 3 people. One on the dog, one on the lure & one to open the door. After a few tries of this, 2-4, try the next step. 4. With the front door closed shake the lure in the window so the dog can see it. Load the dog, who will almost certainly resist, into the box but hold it in with your hands on its butt, don't close the back door. This will keep the dog from turning around in the box and it won't feel as afraid because it got stuffed in a dark confined space & abandoned, it will continue to try to get out. As soon as the dog is in move the lure, still by hand, and open the box. The dog should not be in the box more than a couple seconds. Going in means coming out, right away, and chasing the bunny. THIS IS FUN!! 5. Now is the moment of truth. Shake the lure in the window as before, front door closed, load the dog then closet he back door. Before it can react open the front door as the lure moves. Do this a few times. Then let the times till the box opens lengthen some. 6. Start running with other dogs as my pervious post said. Now you are at her first meet. You confidently go down the track and your dog walk into the box like a dream. The lure is shaken, it takes off, the box opens all the dogs take off! Yours backs out of the box because it turned around and takes off after the lure dead last. Don't worry about it. The meet tension gets to whippet same as people. She's been well trained has learned the beginners lesson and won't do it again. Do not scratch her, she needs the run in the next heat to help her figure out the right way to do things. Having said all that I talked to one breeder who has breed & trained many ARM, NAWRA & WRCh dogs and this is how he box trains. Load dog in box. Walk to other end of track, letting dog do as it will, turn around scream etc., Start lure, box is set up so when the lure moves the box opens, dog chases lure. His dogs quickly learn to be calm in the box, wait for it to open without lots of energy wasting histrionics because they know the lure will go but not whether it will be now of in a few minutes. I do not know how they go INTO the box however. A different approach which works for him, partly out of necessity since he nearly always has to train alone. Gregg Gammie